Fighter weapon ranges & Damage?

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Author: blackknyght
Date: Apr 27, 2020 10:20 PM
Category: Spaceport
Posts: 13
#1
So, I'm looking for several general opinions on what players of SE4 would consider reasonable ranges/damage for the following types of weapons:

Energy beam weapons ?/?

Energy pulse weapons ?/?

Projectile weapons ?/?

Torpedo/Heavy weapons ?/?

Replies

Commenter: KMF-G
Date: Apr 28, 2020 4:48 AM
Fighter weapon ranges & Damage?
#2
Range under Point Defence range by level AKA PD has range of 5 at Level 5, Lv5 fighter has range 3. Unless it is one shot weapon with reload of 30
DMG is unknown variable as I don't play with fighters much but nothing OP.
There is a Carrier Mod already IIRC.

What I would like to have is Space based Resupply point for Fighters and/or Drones.
Commenter: Perimal
Date: Apr 28, 2020 9:42 AM
Fighter weapon ranges & Damage?
#3
It's not quite that simple. You have to factor in the size of the weapon; how much supply it uses; and how capable the fighter is. Also your balance between engines and firepower, see the Re-TDM mod for (IMHO) the best balance using Stock weapons and fighters.

Basically: unless you nerf the firepower of the defenders, fighters have less future and hit chance than a 1945 Japanese Kamikaze. I recommend allowing only Point-Defence and perhaps Rippers or Meson weapons as anti-fighter weapons.

Essentially small fighters carry 1 weapon, medium 1-2; large 2-3 weapons. Due to a bug, the AI will continue to produce small fighters at intervals through the game, even when large fighters are available, and small fighters are pretty much a total waste of space outside the early game. It's worth considering putting heavy weapons on small fighters as they might as well do what damage they can. Another solution, especially with un-modded fighters is just don't build small fighters.

For most weapons I use ranges of 2-3 and, using weapons which shoot every round, and aim for damage per fighter of 30-50 per round depending on weapon. (Note PPBs do not skip unit shields).
e.g.
DUC 3x15=45 ranges 1-2
APB 2x25=50 at range 1 decreasing to 2x15=30 at range 3;
Meson 3x10 = 30 ranges 1-3;
Lightning Ray - 3x20 = 60;
TK projector 2x25=50 but only has range 2

I am struggling with torpedoes as trying to balance the factors between unusable and super weapon is very hard.
Commenter: Grue-II
Date: Apr 28, 2020 9:51 AM
Fighter weapon ranges & Damage?
#4
A note on anti-fighter weapons - I'd say make PDC, pulsed weapons, or the Flak Cannon the only Capital class weapons that can target something as small as a fighter. Maybe a bullet stream weapon, like the Railgun. Too many anti-ship class weapons can target tiny little fighters too.
Commenter: blackknyght
Date: Apr 28, 2020 11:33 AM
Fighter weapon ranges & Damage?
#5
@Perimal: Any chance you have a link for the Re-TDM mod?
Commenter: KMF-G
Date: Apr 29, 2020 8:31 AM
Fighter weapon ranges & Damage?
#6
@ Grue-II
Tiny fighters? they weight THOUSANDS OF TONS...
Commenter: suicidejunkie
Date: Apr 29, 2020 1:11 PM
Fighter weapon ranges & Damage?
#7
I should point out that Carrier Battles mod isn't really about the carriers per se.
It does make them very useful in a combined-arms fleet (particularly compared to stock), but very vulnerable on their own. (Like IRL, you need screening elements and ships of the line to protect the carriers)

On the topic of fighters:
One of the best things I ever did was the REMOVAL of point defense (the ability).

In stock, point defense tends to be very polarizing, much like a shield with infinite regeneration would be: either everything is blocked for no damage, or you get wiped out.

Without point defense (the ability), you must spend your multiplex points to target fighters and missiles.
You can overcommit guns, undercommit, have too many targets at once, or even not have time to defend against rapid travel.
Having specialized ships with lots of smaller guns and strategies to target missiles/fighters as a priority also factors in.

I also highly recommend reducing the number of weapon types in the mod, so that they can all have a niche and all get use.

CBmod took the fairly unique route of just letting the fighters carry the same weapons as ships.
Without ships having ridiculously OP weapons vs fighters, fighters don't need ridiculously OP weapons vs ships to compete, and that makes balancing things much easier!
Instead of worrying about the damage/health balance, you can use fighters for strategic diversity.

Then fighters are tiny ships with free repair and supply, at the cost of needing a mothership and a constant trickle of replacements even when you win the battle.
Commenter: ekolis
Date: Apr 29, 2020 1:21 PM
Fighter weapon ranges & Damage?
#8
Don't fighter weapons do half damage and have less accuracy (canceling out the fighter hull accuracy bonus) in CB compared to the equivalently sized ship weapons?
Commenter: Samurai
Date: Apr 29, 2020 2:51 PM
Fighter weapon ranges & Damage?
#9
I just wish there was one decent mod that both gave you options and managed to balance the scale between a big hammer or a bunch of arrows. Some mods focus on bigger and badder warships, and the carrier mod just focuses on fighters, but NO mod really strikes a decent balance between the two.
Commenter: suicidejunkie
Date: Apr 30, 2020 2:02 AM
Fighter weapon ranges & Damage?
#10
The damage is the same. (20mm DUCs can't do half of 1 damage ;))
Unless you mean vs shielded ships since the shields absorb about half the damage?

There is a varying accuracy bonus on the mounts. That's for balancing fighters vs ships vs missiles; since missiles have a common to-hit chance, you have to monkey with all the other hit chances and cancel stuff out.

CBmod has carriers in the name, but I cannot abide that fighters are The Focus. There are so many thing other than fighters that it does. Calling every mechanic "leaky", I'll grant you though. That's my stereotype.

Personally, I play with very few fighters, since I like to bash armored bricks together and pick up the pieces after, while also trying to ensure that I leave no Phong behind.
Commenter: Grue-II
Date: May 1, 2020 11:21 AM
Fighter weapon ranges & Damage?
#11
Isn't the entire point behind a Carrier, and by extension "Carrier Battles", the Fighters that it carries?
Commenter: Blackadder
Date: May 1, 2020 1:20 PM
Fighter weapon ranges & Damage?
#12
"Note PPBs do not skip unit shields"

I'm going to disagree with this somewhat, based on the head to head testing I was doing when the main forums crashed. In my tests, a PPB destroyed a shielded unit in fewer shots than an APB doing the same damage.

However, it doesn't seem like it in casual play. I believe this is because a unit gets, in addition to actual shield points, bonus hit points equal to the shield points. These bonus hit points are NOT skipped by PPB. A 20 kt fighter with 60 points in shields is going to have 80 hit points even when targeted by a PPB, so it may still take a couple hits to destroy. That's why it seems like the PPB isn't having any special effect on the fighter.

(Based on my testing, the best tactic to use on fighters and other units is to deplete their shields. That seems to get rid of the shield points AND the bonus hit points, leaving them very vulnerable.)
Commenter: suicidejunkie
Date: May 5, 2020 12:18 PM
Fighter weapon ranges & Damage?
#13
Grue-II, yes, but that's not the only thing in the mod.

Carriers are useful (particularly compared to stock, hence the name), and in the early versions were very noticeable for being 10x the size of other ships.
They're actually key to a combined arms force, but ships of the line, artillery, screening and support are all key as well.

The truly impressive part is Rollo's initial AI work that allows them to be competitive and assemble such combined arms fleets.
Edited 1 time(s). Lasted edited May 5, 2020 12:20 PM.